Israel Opposes Change in Egypt

Concerns about the Muslim Brotherhood: Israel Fears Regime Change in Egypt – SPIEGEL ONLINE – News – International

“If regime change occurs in Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood would take the helm, and that would have incalculable consequences for the region,” says [former Israeli Ambassador to Egypt Eli] Shaked. The Israeli government has noted with concern the fact that, even after 30 years of peace, Egypt’s army is still equipped and trained mainly with a possible war against Israel in mind.

A cancellation of the peace treaty would open up a new front with the 11th largest army in the world, which is equipped with modern American weapons. But what Israel fears more than a — somewhat unlikely — armed conflict with Egypt is an alliance between an Islamist regime in Cairo and Hamas, which considers itself an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood.

 

Today the Egyptian army tries to stop — albeit hesitantly — weapons smuggling from Sinai to Gaza, the main supply route for Hamas. An Egyptian regime that opened the border with Gaza for arms deliveries would pose a serious danger to Israel. Shaked considers the West’s demands for more openness and democracy in Egypt to be a fatal mistake. “It is an illusion to believe that the dictator Mubarak could be replaced by a democracy,” he says. “Egypt is still not capable of democracy,” he adds, pointing out that the illiteracy rate is over 20 percent, to give just one example. The Muslim Brotherhood is the only real alternative, he opines, which would have devastating consequences for the West. “They will not change their anti-Western attitude when they come to power. That has not happened (with Islamist movements) anywhere: neither in Sudan, Iran nor Afghanistan.”

Ultimately the choice is between a pro- or an anti-Western dictatorship, says Shaked. “It is in our interest that someone from Mubarak’s inner circle takes over his legacy, at any cost.” In the process, it is not possible to rule out massive bloodshed in the short term, he says. “It would not be the first time that riots in Egypt were brutally crushed.”

36 comments on “Israel Opposes Change in Egypt

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  1. If Israelis wish to express a desire that the Egyptian people should retain the Mubarak rule because it’s possibly of benefit to Israel, they should by all means explain that to the Egyptian citizenry.

  2. @ fuster:
    Doesn’t it give you pause – it gives me pause – to think that Israel’s position in the ME has evolved to the point where what it fears is democracy?

    I’m not saying that that’s the whole story by any means, but in broad terms I think that’s how the world and Israel itself view Israel in this connection.

  3. CK MacLeod wrote:

    Doesn’t it give you pause – it gives me pause – to think that Israel’s position in the ME has evolved to the point where what it fears is democracy?

    no it doesn’t. and I don’t see why it should.

    but, of course, you’re not quite fair in saying that it’s democracy that Israel fears and you might even know that.

  4. @ fuster:
    The events, and the presumptions about Israel’s positioning, reinforce the impression that the Israel’s state interest is in conflict with the general interest, with progress, particularly within the region.

  5. CK MacLeod wrote:

    the impression that the Israel’s state interest is in conflict with the general interest, with progress, particularly within the region.

    that may be someone’s impression. it may be many people’s impression.

    it remains vaporous and about as accurate as saying that the Founding Fathers opposed democracy.

  6. fuster wrote:

    it remains vaporous and about as accurate as saying that the Founding Fathers opposed democracy.

    Many of the Founding Fathers did oppose “democracy” as it was defined in those days, but that doesn’t have much relevance to this situation.

    These impressions regarding Israel aren’t “vaporous”: They are the public positions of former officials like the one quoted above. It’s the assumption of all the analysts I’ve seen commenting on the subject.

    I’m well aware that Israel’s predicament is complicated, and it’s a good thing that, as far as anyone has reported anyway, Israel has no direct role in the situation. I haven’t seen any comments from current Israeli officials, either – possibly also a good thing.

    But it’s indicative of something fundamentally out of whack when the representative of the progressive West fears progress.

  7. @ CK MacLeod:

    Well, old Tsar. How about accepting that opposing the end of the Mubarak regime is not equivalent to opposing democracy and that anyone who says that it does is incorrect.

    Disapproval or apprehension at the fall of a regime that’s despotic and serves Israeli interests in either one or more cases is not the same thing as generally disapproving democracy.

    But it’s indicative of something fundamentally out of whack when the representative of the progressive West fears progress.

    You’re speaking in slogans, the Germanish person.

    Fear of change because of the expectation that change won’t be for the better is not opposition to progress.

    The Iranian revolution was opposed by several groups here and for several reasons, and probably not much of it was because they opposed progress.
    Fear of change may. in excess, retard progress but it isn’t usually because of opposition to the idea and more often is grounded in expectaion that change won’t bring progress.

  8. @ CK MacLeod:

    yes, it does have a cost.

    as do all systems of governance.

    and when you or anyone can show me a political system in the ME more democratic than the other regimes, please do.

    I’ve had a few questions posed to me about how can the Israelis be opposed to Hamas since Hamas was the winner of a democratic election.
    I haven’t yet thought to reply that the opposition is based on antipathy to democracy and progress.

  9. @ fuster:
    I’ve made it clear in the past that I don’t fetishize electoral democracy as the be-all and end-all of a just and supportable state, but I don’t think it can be selectively ignored without doing harm to the credibility of nations whose own legitimacy and whose policy otherwise is based on support for fundamental democratic values.

    We can look through the Middle East and make comparisons based on more than electoral democracy. I don’t have much trouble saying that Jordan’s “system” is more supportable than Syria’s or Yemen’s.

    As for Hamas, the response could have taken a range of different forms, going back decades, but the way that the U.S. and Israel handled the elections was particularly embarrassing, especially since Hamas’ claim to democratic legitimacy extended beyond its electoral victory.

  10. CK MacLeod wrote:

    I’ve made it clear in the past that I don’t fetishize electoral democracy as the be-all and end-all of a just and supportable state, but I don’t think it can be selectively ignored without doing harm to the credibility of nations whose own legitimacy and whose policy otherwise is based on support for fundamental democratic values.

    and when it’s shown that Israel is opposing democracy and progress rather than expressing fear that what’s happening in Egypt might result in serious harm to Israel’s interests without producing a general benefit to Egypt’s progress and democratization, then we’ll have some common ground.

  11. Ok, now this makes the response, on our side, even less clear, from the wiki, in the Telegraph;

    n a secret diplomatic dispatch, sent on December 30 2008, Margaret Scobey, the US Ambassador to Cairo, recorded that opposition groups had allegedly drawn up secret plans for “regime change” to take place before elections, scheduled for September this year…

    Ambassador Scobey questioned whether such an “unrealistic” plot could work, or ever even existed. However, the documents showed that the activist had been approached by US diplomats and received extensive support for his pro-democracy campaign from officials in Washington.

  12. @ fuster:
    Clearly that’s one problem. Not sure that’s the main one. It’s easy to find fault with her forced readings of history and events, but it’s her overall theme that’s most striking.

  13. what is her overall theme other than it’s the job of the United States to do anything that Israel’s government wishes?

  14. @ fuster:
    That everything Israel has done since before the founding of the state has been inadequately harsh, insufficiently self-serving, reflective of too much concern with the rights, aspirations, and ideals of non-Israelis or of insufficiently rigorous Israelis.

    In the piece migs just linked, for instance, she implies that Begin sold out Israel to Sadat. I don’t know if she’s ever clearly stated what she believes the concept of Israeli policy should be, but it seems to be something like keeping all territories, and at minimum holding them hostage against acceptance of maximal Israeli demands on security and recognition, combined with a willingness to establish and extend “facts on the ground.”

    Since it’s too late for a re-do, Israel would now, by her logic, seem destined for catastrophe, whether it adopts her preferred policy prescriptions or not.

  15. No, if one recalls the Camp David project, was really an effort of the late Kamal Adham, founder of Saudi General Intelligence, and the
    ‘grey eminence’ behind BCCI. In this case, the right hand didn’t know
    what ‘the far right hand was doing’ cultivating Salafi figures like Quaradawi and Abdel Rahman, much like ShinBet did with Hamas,
    and what we sought we were getting with Hekmatyar, Younis and Haqquani.

  16. miguel cervantes wrote:

    No, if one recalls the Camp David project, was really an effort of the late Kamal Adham,

    I see. It’s the Saudis that fund Camp David and organize the activities for the children there.

    Do the religious instructors at the camp fatwa much?

  17. miggs, far as I know, the Egyptians were planning to negotiate with the Israelis for a long time before then and they went to war in 73 expecting to accomplish little more than improving their position for the peace talks they were anticipating with the Israelis after the war.

  18. @ fuster:
    As we can see, there is extensive evidence that the “state of Israel” itself was part of a Saudi plot to retain power and influence. The next step: Instruct Malcolm X to breed with that leftist white girl and produce the Alinskyist Socialite Messiah. The objective: Totalitarian Shariah Communist Health Insurance, of course – worldwide.

  19. @ fuster:
    see above… further details available at the HotAir Quote of the Day thread (good work, there – although just between you and me I received no new oaths of eternal fealty from Steny Hoyer or Milton Bradley in 2007).

  20. @ CK MacLeod:

    A firs’ classy mega-‘spiracy theory can always use some extra mongrelization thrown in as a binder and to (attract) retard spoilage.

    anal probes is good ‘swell.

  21. The excerpt from Rachel Bronson’s book, shows how Adham was steering Sadat away from the Soviets even before ;73, but was paradoxically coordinating the attack on Israel leading up to the Yom Kippur war

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