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On “Down in the Dungeon with the Torture Trolls (warning: rated J for Japanese graphic violence)

Guardian

Frankly I feel that our tolerance of trolls and dissenters is what separates us from the left. We want real dialouge, not false consensus. I will agree though that Allah and pals drum up friction in the pursuit of hits and comments. but that is the nature of all advertiser or hit-supported media. Controversy is it's lifeblood, much like democracy.

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The Torturous Debate--sort of....

Gary Kamiya does us a favor, sort of. He admits, and offers examples, that torture can be effective, it can glean useful information. He even makes a distinction between torture and abuse, a nuance that the nuance community has not, heretofore, bee.....

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And strangelet has already decided that torture is whatever the Bushies did because the Bushies are bad Republicans. It is a rather inverted kind of logic, but what can you expect from the morbidly partisan?

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And you know something? Thanks to the navel gazing and so called journalistic obsession with this topic, the people we do pick up have a very good idea what to expect. In fact they use these techniques on each other in order to toughen each other up. They discuss the use of media and human rights groups and international lawyers.

They do this because they know how good it makes people feel about themselves to pretend moral superiority. After all, strangelet is not risking anything.

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And actually that was not Buchenwald, it was Dachau.

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strangelet:

Are you condoning war crimes? Because technically the incident of shooting unarmed Germans was just that.

And no one is talking about putting terrorists in death camps and gas chambers.

This is what makes the discussion so bizarre, the constant need of people such as yourself to exaggerate, lie, and invent.

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A new Rasmussen survey suggests that the Democrats are barking up the wrong tree with their obsessive interest in the waterboarding of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. At this point, at least, common sense reigns:

* 58 percent of voters say the Obama administration's recent release of DOJ memos "endangers the national security of the United States." Fewer than half as many 28 percent, think it "helps America's image abroad." (This suggests that Obama's apology tour hasn't been especially well-received, either.)

* 70 percent also say America's legal system either does a good job of weighing security against individual rights, or puts too much emphasis on individual rights at the expense of security. Only 21 percent say the legal system is "too concerned about protecting national security."

* Only 28 percent want the Obama administration to investigate how the Bush administration treated terrorists. 58 percent want no such investigations.

* Obama's decision to close Guantanamo Bay is now disapproved of by a 46-36 margin, with support for Obama's action declining.

Oh, the Humanity!

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It's bad enough that trolls are allowed to stay and screw up the site. Now we have trolls running the blog too.

This place is going to the dogs dregs.

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Sure, go jackbauer.
But do it in-situ, in theatre, and in the extremity of need.

strangelet on April 24, 2009 at 6:27 PM

So... is it ok, or is it not ok? Either it's worth it, or it's not. This cowardice of "let that guy take the fall" is unserious.

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Strangelet how should we interrogate? Should we, even?

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When you do it.

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I'm still looking to cash in on the "no toothbrush == torture" argument. My in-laws have deep, deep pockets.

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And also Highlander.....know you are offered Alyosha's choice.

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And in Buchenwald....when the Allies opened the camp....American soldiers forgot their training and began to slaughter unarmed germans. Americans driven to madness by the evidence of torture all around them.
And now their country wants to legalize it?
/spit
Should I support Cheney and Bush making a FREAKIN' INSTITUTION OF TORTURE? With procedures and protocols and legal justification memos and goverment built FREAKIN' TORTURE EQUIPMENT???
Sure, go jackbauer.
But do it in-situ, in theatre, and in the extremity of need.

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Exquisite, my delightful Celtic homeslice, but you got me totally wrong.
In truth, discussing this with you has clarified and focused my objections, as follows, from one of AllahP's threads.
O Mathematikos!

Torture should be extralegal, spontaneous, and vanishingly rare.
Those obscene scumbags made an institution of torture in MY country, they legalized it and systemized it, and ginned up a whole bureaucracy to support it.
Release ALL the memos.
Let the DoJ, the Justice branch, deal with them.
Like the Founders intended.

I hope they hang ‘em high.

*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.

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