@ Sully:

# 28. succinct summation of Hobbes' ultimate source.

@ Rex Caruthers:
well, eck-scuuuuse me.

@ narciso:
narc, you hammerhead, are you being a bit blunt in terming as a tool the Judge?

mayhaps you mean to indicate the report is being made free with, not the man.

@ Rex Caruthers:
I read the story. The links don't supply any proof of an Israeli offer to supply nukes

Rex Caruthers wrote:

“–will be horrified by an extra-juridical killing based on disagreement.
National Security type extra-judicial killing of US citizens is OK?


US citizens taking up arms against the US seem fair game.

@ CK MacLeod:
try "our rights come from our existence and our basic similarity."

read Edmund's big speech ( the one that ends "now, gods ,stand up for bastards!") in Lear to hear Shakespeare mocking the case for rights without god.

@ JHM dba "Sniper":

Of course, I never paid nothing for the closing of Strauss' rent, neither... So there is that.

Hippy daze to U2

@ CK MacLeod:
No, Tsar, Hobbes provided a framework for a state that's based on consent of equal, rational men who erect that state in the hope that by ceding most of their natural, unlimited rights as individuals they'll raise a power that will be used to allow them to achieve things that they aren't likely to long secure on their own.

If you read Hobbes closely, you'll find that he says that even after a sovereign is selected, each citizen retains at least one natural right, because there's at least one right that no one can ever alienate.
Should the state attempt to usurp that retained right, even through agency of duly declared, and even freely agreed upon law, the individual retains the right to forcibly resist to the full extent that he can.

@ CK MacLeod:

Maybe not, Tsar. Not sure that anything Locke wrote superseded Hobbes.
What are you thinking of ?

@ CK MacLeod:

Couldn't possibly know which theorists would persuade some group of conservatives.

It probably was clear to some or all of the FFs, unless they were familiar with Hobbes.

It is clear to all, I hope, that belief in a god or gods is not necessary for natural rights theories.