CK MacLeod wrote:

@ fuster:
pffft

I knew you would catch on!

or are you quoting Howard?

see conclusion of comment 23 for helpful hint.

CK MacLeod wrote:

@ George Jochnowitz:
Well, what about it?

if you have to ask

@ CK MacLeod:

you should assess George's position as being in favor of peace and a Palestinian state. Now just how extensive the land and autonomy for that state might be isn't clear, but that doesn't mean you should discount George's intentions.

you grump.

CK MacLeod wrote:

I also recall that many Israelis back in the ’70s especially really did believe in “Greater Israel” and went about seeking to establish the “facts on the ground,” as the phrase went, that would make it irreversible.

Nowhere near as many then. The settlements weren't thought of as irreversible then. They were a tactic to press back against Arab intransigence.

@ George Jochnowitz:
George, you're gonna have to accept the point that Israel no longer is sure that it wants peace with an independent Palestine because it means Israel will have to go to war with the little terrorists in the territories.

Sure the Palestinians were wrong, but now we've got two wrongs and it's not going to get easier to make it right.

The Israelis don't have too much time to waste before they must put paid to those creeps screaming "price tag".

@ George Jochnowitz:
they weren't an obsession when peace was an impossibility and back when the settlements were a tiny curiosity and not the gross and gangrenous mess that they've become.

George Jochnowitz wrote:

When the first settlements appeared in 1967, and when the government allowed them in response to the Three No’s of Khartoum, nobody complained.

I think that complaints are on record George, at least from the 70s on.

@ George Jochnowitz:
I think not, George. Any increase in anti-Israeli feeling is related to
a) general disgust that the situation never improves, and
b) some really lousy actions, policies and politicians in Israel.

Israel used to get much recognition and respect for being underdogs fighting long odds and with their backs to the wall.

Now, the Israelis look like bullies.

George Jochnowitz wrote:

Whenever Israel makes any sort of concession, as happened in Lebanon in 2000, in Gaza in 2005, etc, anti-Israel hatred zooms up.

George, you start with the assumption that Israel is hated to a degree unmatched in history.
So how much can hatred zooooooooooooom from an act of kindness?
And why should it even matter since the hatred is already at 18 on a scale of 1 to 10 ?