JED, I liked your comments on Irony,Tragedy etc,but I want to remind you that some of MODERN American poetry are among the most ironic verse ever written. Example,The Road Less Taken by Frost is an extreme case.

Sully wrote: @ fuster:
Shhh! There are serious scholars here. I’m not sure we should be in here

Your poem yesterday got you a visitor's pass.

Presuming you don’t accept MOBY DICK

I was referring to Tragic Drama,not Fiction. There is no miniseries for Long Days Journey Into Night. It was made into a movie long ago.

I was speculating about Moby Dick because of the names of characters Ahab and Ishmael. I see Ahab as a terrorist,and the White Whale,as symbolizing Western Civ. Ismael is the failed peacemaker,who survives the cataclysym.

Thanks for bringing up the subject of Epic Tragedy,which is not so very welcome here,as a subject of Conversation, in the land of pathetic optimism. Epic Tragedy,of course,evolved into Dramatic tragedy. The aftermath of the Trojan War is taken up in Agamemmnon and personalized. I recommend two books,Ted Hughes' Translation of Aeschylus's complete Oresteia,and Anne Carson's(Translator), An Oresteia,which contains Agamemmnon by Aeschylus,Electra by Sophocles,and Orestes by Euripides,with commentary. AND Who will write the Ameriad or the Amerestia? A great task for a future tragedian. Our greatest Tragedy to date,O'Neil's Long Days Journey Into Night,way too tough for most theatre goers.