At this juncture,what we did in WW2 is a dream that we can never bring again to fruition unless there's a huge assault on our system in which case my "daydream" becomes a strategic option.
Well, now you’re back on different ground. Doesn’t have much in common with a “let’s threaten to wipe out Islam” strategy
Yeah it does,it's very cheap,stop all the wars of ambiguity,and have a simple policy,attack us and Holy Sites 1-10 are wiped out,it won't wipe out Islam or even kill a lot of Islamics,and nobody knows,even me,but it might be an effective deterrent,lets let Stranglet opine:
S.A. is more on our side than against us, out of sheer self-interested calculation, when it comes to terror attacks overly rocking the boat.
SA is the main point of my point,they should become MORE motivated to stop an attack on us then they are at the moment. And if such an attack is in the works,they'll know it,for sure,so the ball would be in their court,the way it should be.
Israel is irrelevant regarding whether we want to allow Islamaland a coherent understanding about the inevitable consequences to 9/11-2. And I understand that we don't want to allow them that coherent understanding,in fact,we aren't coherent as we talk to each other about threats of terrorism.
Maybe if we attack Iran,that will convince Islamics not to attack us,maybe that will work.
"There’s no amorphous mass out there called Islam that spontaneously produces “major attacks” like rain clouds produce lightning. The response you suggest does resemble a war on clouds.
In the meantime, spiting our face wouldn’t be a good alternative in any event. And there are no responsible “leaders of Islam.” There are Muslims all over the place, many in Muslim majority countries, others not. India has the second or third largest Muslim population of any country in the world, for instance."
A MAD policy,only if they knew exactly what the Consequences of 9/11-2 would be,would create incentives for them to change their social order. Their decentralization creates a system of deniability that covers their ass.
If the situation was reversed,and the Christians were the aggressors,and they were told that an attack on whatever would be responded to by the destruction of the Vatican,the Christian/Christian nations would have to get together to make some policy and administrative decisions. And if there was a splinter group that they couldn't control,let's call it El-Christa,the Christians could work with the Islams to contain El-Christa.
The key to anything changing is the certainity of a specific result to a terrorist attack.
WE DON"T HAVE A PLAN IN PLACE TO RESPOND TO MAJORATTACK2 FROM OUR FRIENDS IN ISLAMALAND.
If we do,will you refresh my memory. Our current plan to PREVENT major attack 2 is to place 200,000 American Troops in Iraq/Afghanistan and see what happens? That's a plan which to my understanding is one that you think is potentially effective,workable,a Preemptive approach. But what are the exact consequences of a 9/11-2?
And explain to me if destroying our property/people is their plan,why is it Insane for us to have a plan to destroy their property,their people? In RESPONSE TO THEIR PLAN?
I understand that the fact of Israel,and the fact that we are present on their Real Estate killing,and destroying their people,their property,(I know to protect us BLAH BLAH BLAH)complicates the matter,so I propose,we move all our forces out of Islamaland,set up a MAD policy,and see if we can get them to contain the insanity of some of their True Believers.
why we need to do certain things now, to head that off
No, Wrong,we don't have to do anything except convince the leaders of Islam that we want to simplify our lives. I am not interested in Islam,and I am indifferent to it except in terms of an attack on our Real Estate. BTW,if we're in Islamaland,and we're attacked there,that's on us,that's our choice,we're adults,and can deal with those consequences. I'm talking about a major Domestic attack on our soil,and to me Israel plays no role in this matter. This is the best way we can contain them,and if they attack us anyway,at least we tried to give them some incentives not to.
BTW,We have no plan in place if NYC gets hit by a Dirty Bomb.
Here's the way to discontinue all the angel counting on the Islamphobia issue. But it will take some intestinal fortitude. If we are attacked again,a major attack, (we get to define major),we will assign responsability for the attack to Islam itself. And the top ten centers of Islam will perish. This is based on the MAD model,but it gives those in charge of Islam a chance to protect their interests. And if Islam is truly a religion of peace and rationality,they will purge themselves of their uncivilized aspects.
"RCAR I am disgusted that you would say that—Oh, I mean, of course, I am amazed that you would say that, an experience of amazement and one of disgust being so readily confused. They’re practically synonyms. It happens all the time and seems to have happened to you"
Intended as a light satirical comment,unworthy of disgust or amazement. Oh,Intentions and Results,always a greater distance tween them than we realize
I admire JC without Reservation,see Stephen Mitchell's "The Gospel According to Jesus",but I have mixed attitudes towards that all too human creation,institutionalized Religion, much to admire,much to despise.
"Mitchell himself admits the impossibility of ever determining the authentic teachings of Jesus with any certainty. The purpose of his book is to restore the name of Jesus for the many who have rejected his teachings because of the hatred and intolerance expressed in his name, even in his own day."
http://www.thesatirist.com/books/GospelJesus.html
That is an appalling assertion
but while participating in a duly authorized conflict
We need to ask their parents,their wives,their children,their friends, whether they died for nothing,that's where the truth is. I had exactly 26 friends,associates,and classmates who died in Vietnam. Ask me the question,they died for nothing. They died because of Government incompetence and irresponsability and failure to Manage one of its most important functions, WAGING WAR.
Joe/ For myself, I am unmoved by piss and shit in whatever guise they are offered for my appreciation.
You remind me of the character Strephon in Swift's Poem,"The Lady's Dressing Room", who is amazed at the fact of Female Defecation,
"Thus finishing his grand Survey, [115]
Disgusted Strephon stole away
Repeating in his amorous Fits,
Oh! Celia, Celia, Celia shits"
http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Texts/dressing.html
" It is necessary tobring down the good, the decent, the patriotic, in order to ‘fundamentally transform’
the society."
It is also necessary to do the above to meet our sales quota for this quarter.
Capitalism and Communism are joined at the hip,Janus stle,without one,you don't have the other. The "Rough New Beast" of Yeat's Poem fortells of the next stage of society,Neither C/C,(Fundemental Transformation)
It is one aspect of how the Media uses Serial Killers,whether it's Dexter,Hannibal Lecter,Dahmer etc etc,real or fictional,they are very funny guys in lots of movie books etc. They've lost a lot of their power to creep us out because of overuse,so the Creators of these works like Edward Lee,and Rob Zombie,turn the tables on us by manipulating us into laughing at their jokes,thus forcing us to identify with them.
A fan or at least a non-judgmental interpreter of Serrano would argue that Piss Christ was a more reverential gesture than anything any televangelist ever managed.
No, that is not it at all, it’s is the idea that Serrano’s blasphemy
And the argument would be that if a God chose to become human and enter the dank,corrupted fallen world,it would be the equalivant to that God of diving into a vat of piss.
Evil sells,I can give you volumes of examples. That's why the idea of Capitalism as a "Moral" force is such a joke,but The Masters of the Universe know how to sell. I've made an above average living since 1971, SELLING,which is the Frontline of Capitalism. But,the Market is not where I venture when I seek Moral Education.
Narciso, Their specialty is Suicide Bombers,ours is serial killers and mass murderers whose victims are,well just about anybody. The Difference,of course, is that Suicide Bombers are a targeted result of a specific and socially acceptable "Need" of their Social Order. The Serial Killer/Mass Murderers are not wanted nor specifically bred by our society. But what we have in common is RESULTS,we produce killers of ourselves in a highly predicitable and consistent manner,as they produce the Suicide Bomber. I would even venture to say that on a per capita basis,we out produce them. In my opinion,Production/Results Trumps Intention.
"There is a larger question,that you chose to sidestep
The Question,"what is it about today, (1)that disdains beauty, (2)that holds such a dark mirror to our own
culture, (3)that disdains technology, even it is an indispensable part of our society, And conversely considers critique of the Other sacrosanct
The answer to the question is that as a Society,we buy a lot of Culture
that has the qualities that you describe. What we buy is packaged by Business people who have excellent instincts about how to package and sell this BRAND of Culture. Examples are TRUE BLOOD,TWILIGHT,DEXTER,featuring the side splitting humour of the serial killer/torturer,the wisdom of Vampires,and the irresistible sexiness of Werewolves,We love Capitalism in America,"If it sells,it's just got to be good." Capitalism spreads the Dark side of our Culture,because it is there,and people want to see themselves,Through a mirror,Darkly. I personally find Commentary/Contentions among the Darkest writing avaiable anywhere.
It’s the daydream
At this juncture,what we did in WW2 is a dream that we can never bring again to fruition unless there's a huge assault on our system in which case my "daydream" becomes a strategic option.
Well, now you’re back on different ground. Doesn’t have much in common with a “let’s threaten to wipe out Islam” strategy
Yeah it does,it's very cheap,stop all the wars of ambiguity,and have a simple policy,attack us and Holy Sites 1-10 are wiped out,it won't wipe out Islam or even kill a lot of Islamics,and nobody knows,even me,but it might be an effective deterrent,lets let Stranglet opine:
The system worked, more or less
I try to remain realistic.
The costs to maintain the SYSTEM,are not realistic.
The system worked, more or less
But the patient died,of Bankruptcy.
S.A. is more on our side than against us, out of sheer self-interested calculation, when it comes to terror attacks overly rocking the boat.
SA is the main point of my point,they should become MORE motivated to stop an attack on us then they are at the moment. And if such an attack is in the works,they'll know it,for sure,so the ball would be in their court,the way it should be.
Deterrence, in short, is pretty much in place. Not perfect. Doesn’t have to be.
I beg to differ
Rex is already blaming Israel
Israel is irrelevant regarding whether we want to allow Islamaland a coherent understanding about the inevitable consequences to 9/11-2. And I understand that we don't want to allow them that coherent understanding,in fact,we aren't coherent as we talk to each other about threats of terrorism.
Maybe if we attack Iran,that will convince Islamics not to attack us,maybe that will work.
"There’s no amorphous mass out there called Islam that spontaneously produces “major attacks” like rain clouds produce lightning. The response you suggest does resemble a war on clouds.
In the meantime, spiting our face wouldn’t be a good alternative in any event. And there are no responsible “leaders of Islam.” There are Muslims all over the place, many in Muslim majority countries, others not. India has the second or third largest Muslim population of any country in the world, for instance."
A MAD policy,only if they knew exactly what the Consequences of 9/11-2 would be,would create incentives for them to change their social order. Their decentralization creates a system of deniability that covers their ass.
If the situation was reversed,and the Christians were the aggressors,and they were told that an attack on whatever would be responded to by the destruction of the Vatican,the Christian/Christian nations would have to get together to make some policy and administrative decisions. And if there was a splinter group that they couldn't control,let's call it El-Christa,the Christians could work with the Islams to contain El-Christa.
The key to anything changing is the certainity of a specific result to a terrorist attack.
CK,
WE DON"T HAVE A PLAN IN PLACE TO RESPOND TO MAJORATTACK2 FROM OUR FRIENDS IN ISLAMALAND.
If we do,will you refresh my memory. Our current plan to PREVENT major attack 2 is to place 200,000 American Troops in Iraq/Afghanistan and see what happens? That's a plan which to my understanding is one that you think is potentially effective,workable,a Preemptive approach. But what are the exact consequences of a 9/11-2?
And explain to me if destroying our property/people is their plan,why is it Insane for us to have a plan to destroy their property,their people? In RESPONSE TO THEIR PLAN?
I understand that the fact of Israel,and the fact that we are present on their Real Estate killing,and destroying their people,their property,(I know to protect us BLAH BLAH BLAH)complicates the matter,so I propose,we move all our forces out of Islamaland,set up a MAD policy,and see if we can get them to contain the insanity of some of their True Believers.
That’s insane, fantastical, repugnant, and wouldn’t work
Then,what would be sane,pragmatic,attractive,workable,
our current policy if we experience majorattack 2,which is?????
why we need to do certain things now, to head that off
No, Wrong,we don't have to do anything except convince the leaders of Islam that we want to simplify our lives. I am not interested in Islam,and I am indifferent to it except in terms of an attack on our Real Estate. BTW,if we're in Islamaland,and we're attacked there,that's on us,that's our choice,we're adults,and can deal with those consequences. I'm talking about a major Domestic attack on our soil,and to me Israel plays no role in this matter. This is the best way we can contain them,and if they attack us anyway,at least we tried to give them some incentives not to.
BTW,We have no plan in place if NYC gets hit by a Dirty Bomb.
Here's the way to discontinue all the angel counting on the Islamphobia issue. But it will take some intestinal fortitude. If we are attacked again,a major attack, (we get to define major),we will assign responsability for the attack to Islam itself. And the top ten centers of Islam will perish. This is based on the MAD model,but it gives those in charge of Islam a chance to protect their interests. And if Islam is truly a religion of peace and rationality,they will purge themselves of their uncivilized aspects.
"RCAR I am disgusted that you would say that—Oh, I mean, of course, I am amazed that you would say that, an experience of amazement and one of disgust being so readily confused. They’re practically synonyms. It happens all the time and seems to have happened to you"
Intended as a light satirical comment,unworthy of disgust or amazement. Oh,Intentions and Results,always a greater distance tween them than we realize
and insults a religion in the bargain
I admire JC without Reservation,see Stephen Mitchell's "The Gospel According to Jesus",but I have mixed attitudes towards that all too human creation,institutionalized Religion, much to admire,much to despise.
"Mitchell himself admits the impossibility of ever determining the authentic teachings of Jesus with any certainty. The purpose of his book is to restore the name of Jesus for the many who have rejected his teachings because of the hatred and intolerance expressed in his name, even in his own day."
http://www.thesatirist.com/books/GospelJesus.html
http://www.amazon.com/Gospel-According-Jesus-Translation-Unbelievers/dp/0060923210
That is an appalling assertion
but while participating in a duly authorized conflict
We need to ask their parents,their wives,their children,their friends, whether they died for nothing,that's where the truth is. I had exactly 26 friends,associates,and classmates who died in Vietnam. Ask me the question,they died for nothing. They died because of Government incompetence and irresponsability and failure to Manage one of its most important functions, WAGING WAR.
Joe/ For myself, I am unmoved by piss and shit in whatever guise they are offered for my appreciation.
You remind me of the character Strephon in Swift's Poem,"The Lady's Dressing Room", who is amazed at the fact of Female Defecation,
"Thus finishing his grand Survey, [115]
Disgusted Strephon stole away
Repeating in his amorous Fits,
Oh! Celia, Celia, Celia shits"
http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Texts/dressing.html
http://quarterlyconversation.com/on-jonathan-swifts-poetry
Stranglet,
What would have been a RATIONAL response to 9/11?
" It is necessary tobring down the good, the decent, the patriotic, in order to ‘fundamentally transform’
the society."
It is also necessary to do the above to meet our sales quota for this quarter.
Capitalism and Communism are joined at the hip,Janus stle,without one,you don't have the other. The "Rough New Beast" of Yeat's Poem fortells of the next stage of society,Neither C/C,(Fundemental Transformation)
That’s not what Dexter is about really at all
It is one aspect of how the Media uses Serial Killers,whether it's Dexter,Hannibal Lecter,Dahmer etc etc,real or fictional,they are very funny guys in lots of movie books etc. They've lost a lot of their power to creep us out because of overuse,so the Creators of these works like Edward Lee,and Rob Zombie,turn the tables on us by manipulating us into laughing at their jokes,thus forcing us to identify with them.
A fan or at least a non-judgmental interpreter of Serrano would argue that Piss Christ was a more reverential gesture than anything any televangelist ever managed.
No, that is not it at all, it’s is the idea that Serrano’s blasphemy
And the argument would be that if a God chose to become human and enter the dank,corrupted fallen world,it would be the equalivant to that God of diving into a vat of piss.
but I think it’s more than that
Evil sells,I can give you volumes of examples. That's why the idea of Capitalism as a "Moral" force is such a joke,but The Masters of the Universe know how to sell. I've made an above average living since 1971, SELLING,which is the Frontline of Capitalism. But,the Market is not where I venture when I seek Moral Education.
Narciso, Their specialty is Suicide Bombers,ours is serial killers and mass murderers whose victims are,well just about anybody. The Difference,of course, is that Suicide Bombers are a targeted result of a specific and socially acceptable "Need" of their Social Order. The Serial Killer/Mass Murderers are not wanted nor specifically bred by our society. But what we have in common is RESULTS,we produce killers of ourselves in a highly predicitable and consistent manner,as they produce the Suicide Bomber. I would even venture to say that on a per capita basis,we out produce them. In my opinion,Production/Results Trumps Intention.
"There is a larger question,that you chose to sidestep
The Question,"what is it about today, (1)that disdains beauty, (2)that holds such a dark mirror to our own
culture, (3)that disdains technology, even it is an indispensable part of our society, And conversely considers critique of the Other sacrosanct
The answer to the question is that as a Society,we buy a lot of Culture
that has the qualities that you describe. What we buy is packaged by Business people who have excellent instincts about how to package and sell this BRAND of Culture. Examples are TRUE BLOOD,TWILIGHT,DEXTER,featuring the side splitting humour of the serial killer/torturer,the wisdom of Vampires,and the irresistible sexiness of Werewolves,We love Capitalism in America,"If it sells,it's just got to be good." Capitalism spreads the Dark side of our Culture,because it is there,and people want to see themselves,Through a mirror,Darkly. I personally find Commentary/Contentions among the Darkest writing avaiable anywhere.